Posts by tall penguin

Yesterday morning, I was thinking of an elder in a congregation I grew up in. I had been thinking of the old pioneering days as a teen and how this particular elder had a crush on one of the pioneers I worked with a lot. I wondered what became of him. It's been at least ten years, if not more, since I saw him. He was a nice guy.

Bear in mind, I live in a city with over 4 million people in it. And the part of the city I live/work in is almost an hour away from where I grew up. So I go to work at the bookstore, and lo and behold, this elder comes strolling up the escalator. I do a bit of a double take and then break out into a smile. His wife, I assume, asks me where the bathroom is. He sees me but doesn't seem to recognize me. He looks just as I knew him back in my teens, just a whole lot greyer.

I wanted to say something to him, but geez, what do you say when the chances are pretty high that you're going to get rejected as soon as it becomes known you're no longer a jw.

Anyhow, thought it was interesting. Of course, I think about all kinds of people on a daily basis and they don't all turn up at my workplace. I wonder though when these things happen. Seems sublimely random or is it randomly sublime? :)

tall penguin

86

On the sound use of mental suicide.

by Narkissos in

jw
friends

this topic is meant as a follow-up of my recent conversation with r. crusoe on different threads.. it seems to me that the current popularisation of eckhart tolle's philosophy, resurrecting what i think is the very core of age-old mystical traditions (to put it shortly: death of the culturally constructed "self"), without the collective mythological, institutional and social settings for such an experience, is potentially very liberating but also very dangerous.. i am sensitive to that because i went through a similar experience when i left jws -- i felt both its empowering and destructive force, and, although i certainly don't claim to have dealt with it optimally (is that an adverb?

), i'm hoping that experience, good or bad, may benefit others, to an extent.

and i'm sure that i'm not alone in that case.. so i'd like this thread to be primarily supportive, even though that may include some theoretical and practical criticism.. .

tall penguin

Hey Narkissos, My blog is at:

www.tallpenguin.com

86

On the sound use of mental suicide.

by Narkissos in

jw
friends

this topic is meant as a follow-up of my recent conversation with r. crusoe on different threads.. it seems to me that the current popularisation of eckhart tolle's philosophy, resurrecting what i think is the very core of age-old mystical traditions (to put it shortly: death of the culturally constructed "self"), without the collective mythological, institutional and social settings for such an experience, is potentially very liberating but also very dangerous.. i am sensitive to that because i went through a similar experience when i left jws -- i felt both its empowering and destructive force, and, although i certainly don't claim to have dealt with it optimally (is that an adverb?

), i'm hoping that experience, good or bad, may benefit others, to an extent.

and i'm sure that i'm not alone in that case.. so i'd like this thread to be primarily supportive, even though that may include some theoretical and practical criticism.. .

tall penguin

Zenism, you are a kindred spirit methinks.

"It will always sound the same in the end - because the experience (that de-ja vu) is the same, one just knows it again and again and again - each time more deeply, more expansively, more exquisitely."

YES!!! When I write my blog I have these moments where I know I've visited these ideas before, but each time they seem new somehow, enhanced, heightened, more true, more real. It's like I know I know, but now I really know I know.

"the dark moments become less debilitatingly dark in the sense that your willingness to be taken there increases."

Yes, I am learning about surrender more and more these days. To accept what is with grace. To be with what is without the need to label it as good or bad, as useful or not useful and just be. Very challenging. Much resistance.

""How do I post onto this topic what it feels like to have so much energy in your body that you feel as if you want to have sex with everyone and everything?""

lol. Yes! I understand. And have more to say on this, but I'm moving it to a pm so watch your box. :)

tall penguin

86

On the sound use of mental suicide.

by Narkissos in

jw
friends

this topic is meant as a follow-up of my recent conversation with r. crusoe on different threads.. it seems to me that the current popularisation of eckhart tolle's philosophy, resurrecting what i think is the very core of age-old mystical traditions (to put it shortly: death of the culturally constructed "self"), without the collective mythological, institutional and social settings for such an experience, is potentially very liberating but also very dangerous.. i am sensitive to that because i went through a similar experience when i left jws -- i felt both its empowering and destructive force, and, although i certainly don't claim to have dealt with it optimally (is that an adverb?

), i'm hoping that experience, good or bad, may benefit others, to an extent.

and i'm sure that i'm not alone in that case.. so i'd like this thread to be primarily supportive, even though that may include some theoretical and practical criticism.. .

tall penguin

It has been said that going sane feels just like going crazy. This thread mirrors where I find myself in this play called life. I see myself weaving through the same thoughts, questions and feelings as I confront the ultimate question, "Who am I really?"

Tolle's work resonates with me. And yet, as I watch the forums unfold around his work, I am struck by how mentally unwell these people seem, myself included. On the road to the truth, we have lost our ability to function well in the here and now.

My brother is entering this seeking. It has been brewing for years. I dare say, my leaving the org has brought the process along. And I feel conflicted about it. I fear for him. And yet, I know there is no going back. You cannot re-insert yourself into the old constructs, the old ways of being. You reach the point of now return, that state of mental suicide and you can do nothing but continue on the course you've charted.

Paulo Coelho, in his book "Eleven Minutes" says: "At every moment of our lives, we all have one foot in a fairy tale and the other in the abyss." It is hard to keep it all together. I have these incredible moments of presence and heightened awareness, moments where the words fail and everything makes sense. And then I have these dark despairing moments where I crave death, crave the quiet of oblivion. Is this enlightenment? Is this real? What is real?

"At an individual level, I'm more worried about the fate of people getting stuck in the "grey zone" and becoming more and more "dysfunctional" in the ongoing old world where functioning still matters. Seeing them as "martyrs for the 'New Earth'" is hardly a consolation to me."

In the moments of awareness, I am high functioning. I feel like I am at one with life, in love with it, making love to it. In the dark moments, I can barely get out of bed.

"To me the difference is how much stress, or anxiety, or frustration, or boredom everyone can bear. I would suggest (partly from experience, partly from intuition) that as long as one can stand unconsciously playing his/her individual "part" in the social/mental play (taking him/herself "seriously" if you prefer) s/he just does. Whoever is not subjectively able to do that any longer enters in a crisis, leading to either "consciousness" or "death" -- in a sense, both."

Yes, this is where I find myself. On the thin line between consciousness and death. Sanity and insanity. A nice place to visit; not so fun to live there.

"So many responses have arisen within me and I can't choose which ones are worthy of expression. I have found lately that I have a committment issue with thought. Whilst on one hand I find it amusing that my thoughts are beginning to be bored with me (or I with them?), on the other hand it still scares me."

I write a blog. Some of you here read it regularly. I have entered into a love/hate relationship with my thoughts, with my words. As zenism so aptly expresses, a "commitment issue". I see my mind circle around and have so much deja vu I think sometimes it's all scripted somewhere and I should just let go and enjoy the ride. As I write my blog, I feel this push/pull, this wanting to share, yet this deeper sense of meaningless, that the language I have for what I'm experiencing just doesn't cut it. And I realize how much my world is expanding and contracting at the same time. Will I reach a place where I can no longer communicate my experience? And then what? If I no longer have language, how do I relate to my fellow man? Where does that leave me? The infinite world then once more becomes a box with shackles.

And then, I wonder, does any of this really matter? When I finally escape the clutches of this human existence, will all this have meant something?

tall penguin

17

Suffering...

by tall penguin in

jw
friends

as j.w.s we were taught that life wasnt supposed to be about suffering.

life was supposed to be about joy and bliss and everlasting life.

if it werent for adam and eve and satan, all would be well.

tall penguin

Thanks Spaz. Nature's University indeed. Perhaps the only University education many of us will ever get. :)

Thanks Robdar.

Thanks Oompa. The adjustment period can take time my friend. Be patient and gentle with yourself. Being raised jw is a challenging hand to be dealt by life, but one I am finding we can learn to play well.

tall penguin

17

Suffering...

by tall penguin in

jw
friends

as j.w.s we were taught that life wasnt supposed to be about suffering.

life was supposed to be about joy and bliss and everlasting life.

if it werent for adam and eve and satan, all would be well.

tall penguin

As j.w.’s we were taught that life wasn’t supposed to be about suffering. Life was supposed to be about joy and bliss and everlasting life. If it weren’t for Adam and Eve and Satan, all would be well.

In reality, life IS suffering. Suffering is part of the human experience. To deny it is to deny reality. To fight against it is to argue with what is. How can life be anything but what it is?

As jw’s we grew up with this idea that something was wrong with life, something was wrong with us, because we suffered, because we got sick, grew old, died. What if we had been raised to accept it as part of the fundamental nature of being human? What if we learned from an early age that there is nothing wrong with us? That what unfolds in life, is life. It is what it is.

I remember the watchtower illustration of the bread pan with the dent in it and how we’re all dented loaves of bread because of the dent of sin we supposedly inherited from Adam. What kind of mindf**k is that? A dented loaf of bread? Why would I ever want to see myself as that? It’s like stamping a “damaged goods” label across one’s forehead. It is no wonder we have a hard time loving ourselves, seeing ourselves as the great and wonderful beings we all are.

And I think of the patterns of denial these concepts leave us with. To always think that this isn’t the way life is supposed to be, to always be looking to some future time when things will be different, it is madness. It is insanity. It is a denial of our experience in the here and now.

As a j.w. I had a hard time with acceptance of myself, acceptance of my suffering, acceptance of life as it was unfolding. It was always this battle to know who was causing the events of my life. Who was pulling the strings? Was Satan causing my pain or was Jehovah allowing me to be tested? And what was the difference anyhow? Two faces of the same coin it seemed.

There is a freedom in the space I’m entering now. I am learning to accept that life entails a degree of suffering. That it is to be expected. That it’s not my fault or Adam’s fault or Eve’s fault or Satan’s fault or God’s fault or anyone else’s. It just is. To see it, to be with it, to allow it. And now, it just fades somehow. The suffering turns into these wonderful gems of compassion and vulnerability; of love and of joy. There is beauty in tears, in anger, in grief.

A wise friend once said, “When you can look the devil in the eye, and see the Christ, you know you are Home.” I’m getting it.

tall penguin